[Episode Update] #4.39: Through the Valley of the Shadow

[kira]

Well, a new year deserves a new episode, don't you think? And hey, what better way to celebrate 2009 with a juicy installment of angst, fear, conflict, sex, violence and disaster? (In other words, a typical ASF episode.)

There are all sorts of explosions in this outing, from the literal to the emotional, as the main kidnapping arc finally concludes ... only to begin a new chapter. So take a journey "Through the Valley of the Shadow", aka Episode #4.39, where...

• After crashing Greg's car into the PlayCity complex, Jem wakes up to find himself in a hellish new trap;
• Rena pushes Chelsea to take a leap of faith, but both are caught in the explosion;
• Jonnie inadvertently reveals enough for Nick to realize he's been betrayed;
• Alex continues his obsession and plays with his victim's mind;
• ...and Mike confronts Martina about the lurid sex video.

Alas, things right now are a bit dark for our poor citizens of Skyfalls -- I know, that's like saying water is a bit wet; what else is new? But now that the kidnapping plot has turned the corner, ASF will be focusing on new angles and storylines, which will allow for a better variety of tone. So never fear, there'll be some lighter times ahead.

I hope you'll accept my apologies for the delay and my gratitude for your patience. If you get a chance, tell everyone what you think of the episode via our Viewers Voice poll form or our message board. Oh also, there's a new front page poll, where you can decide which is your favorite season. I'd certainly be interested in hearing your thoughts!

[patrice]

Welcome back Skyfalls! I finally had a chance to read the new long-awaited episode and I loved it. This was really Jem's episode, like most of them lately, and he showed all his different sides in every scene. He can be cowardly and selfish one minute right before he shows surprising bravery and actually cares about others. In particular I loved his reaction to Greg, both when he first thinks he's dead, and later on when he sees Greg and Chelsea. I was LOLing at him being jealous one minute and crying w/relief the next. Also when seeing Chelsea, he was able to put on a heroic act despite remembering that he's the one who caused her kidnapping in the first place. Trust him to take advantage of the situation! Of all his many reactions throughout, I was most touched by how sincerely moved he was over Rena's situation. He was definitely MVP this ep for me.

Speaking of Rena, I couldn't tell whether she's dead or not. But I can't in a million years imagine you'd kill her off. Although that would be a painful way to change Jem's character and her death would affect lots of other people on canvas. Still she's more useful alive, I think. She's the only one who knows Jem's secret, she's a thorn in Chelsea's side, she softens Greg, and she's a useful sounding board to Clark and Marty who'll both definitely need one, LOL. Plus on her own she's a great character. All in all, I don't think she's really dead, but you did give me a scare when she started reciting the 23rd psalm and the medics couldn't seem to revive her.

The Nick/Jonnie stuff at first seemed like filler (sorry) but when they led to the Nick/Cameron confrontation, it all made sense. Cameron's much scarier than I remember. Nick is definitely a 'thug' as Cameron called him, but at least Nick has certain ethics. Maybe 'ethics' isn't the right word, but what I mean is, Nick holds true to his own standards. He's a man of his word, like he says, and frankly I can respect that more than someone who's willing to change the rules mid-game. Not that Nick is admirable or anything, but at least you can trust him.

Also to backtrack a bit, but is Jonnie calling Jem going to come back to haunt him? Cameron seems suspicious, and there was that moment in this ep where he wanted to know who told Nick about Dean's visit and Nick avoided revealing it. Now the attempt to murder Chelsea failed. Cameron seems too smart not to follow up on this.

Finally the Martina situation. First: YUCK. Every time I think of her watcing herself and Alex it makes me shudder. Then he has the nerve to come over and harass her! What a complete sleaze. I know he's allegedly doing this 'for her own good' so that Danielle doesn't kill her, but he is OBVIOUSLY getting his jollies over this. Some of his comments were just disgusting albeit perfectly in character. Good for Marty for not wimping out and especially for figuring out that she may have been drugged.

As a side note, I liked the back-and-forth between Mike and Marty while she was hoping he would leave already. That was believable. Sometimes when I'm under the weather and my DH is trying his best to be nice and comforting, I still secretly wish he'd just leave me the heck alone, LOL. So I can relate. I hope she'll tell him what happened soon, but considering how damning that tape appears to be, I guess she'll try to hide it. The only thing I'm worried about is that things move forward in this plot, because you've already shown what happens when Alex tries to lord things over Martina's head (their previous sex deal). So hopefully this will be different. I'm assuming there will be a different angle. All I know is that Martina's ready for a breakdown, what with this and the various burglary attempts. Poor girl.

Sorry for being so longwinded, but you probably don't mind, LOL. Thanks for a great and fast-paced episode and PLEASE keep 'em coming! We'll be here waiting with baited breath.

[kira]

*gasp* A customer! Wait, what's your rush, what's your hurry? You gave me such a fright I thought you was a ghost! Half a minute, can't you sit, sit you down, sit! All I meant is that I haven't seen a customer for weeks....

Sweeney Todd fans will get the reference. That's my way of saying hey, Patrice, I'm so pleased to get feedback and I'm truly grateful that you're here after such a long absence on my part!

Originally Posted by patrice

Welcome back Skyfalls! I finally had a chance to read the new long-awaited episode and I loved it. This was really Jem's episode, like most of them lately, and he showed all his different sides in every scene. He can be cowardly and selfish one minute right before he shows surprising bravery and actually cares about others.

Thank you! Yes, he's pretty much everyone's favorite, not because he's necessarily likeable but because he really does lend himself to such a wide variety of emotions -- both his own, and those he inspires. He's capable of being both an utter asshat and almost ... though not quite ... noble. By necessity he will move slightly out of focus, because so many other characters are demanding their places in the spotlight, but he'll never be too far from the stage. I just said this to someone else, but if I could write all episodes chock full of Jemmy goodness, I wouldn't have a problem churning these babies out.

Originally Posted by patrice

Speaking of Rena, I couldn't tell whether she's dead or not. But I can't in a million years imagine you'd kill her off. Although that would be a painful way to change Jem's character and her death would affect lots of other people on canvas.

Very true on all counts.

Originally Posted by patrice

The Nick/Jonnie stuff at first seemed like filler (sorry) but when they led to the Nick/Cameron confrontation, it all made sense. Cameron's much scarier than I remember. Nick is definitely a 'thug' as Cameron called him, but at least Nick has certain ethics. Maybe 'ethics' isn't the right word, but what I mean is, Nick holds true to his own standards.

No need to apologize, I understand the 'filler' comment completely. In an episode where we've got no less than four characters fighting for their lives, and another confronting the sight of herself having sex with a man she despises, the interplay between Jonnie and Nick would stand out as an oddity among nail-biting scenes. As you saw, though, there was a reason for it: both to show Jonnie being more proactive in trying to save Chelsea, and later on, leading to the tension between Cameron and Nick (and as you later point out, Cameron noting Nick's odd protectiveness over one of his staff members).

I enjoy the Nichols family dynamic a great deal, because it allows me to examine the varying degrees of villainy (if one may use that word). Most of them are entrenched in their criminal and/or despicable activities, but some are scummier than others in different ways. As Nick points out, Cam is a hypocrite for thinking himself above the ugliness, just because he's further removed from it. And yet Nick is also a hypocrite, for thinking that creating and abiding by certain rules (but still being willing to kill or brutalize others) makes him better than Cam. In the end, they're both violent men trying to justify their actions. Which makes them human, if not sympathetic.

To answer your question, yes, Cameron's suspicions of Jonnie will have reprecussions.

Originally Posted by patrice

Good for Marty for not wimping out and especially for figuring out that she may have been drugged.

Thank you! I'm really trying to beef up her strength, which is difficult considering she's been victimized so much. She's not dumb, notwithstanding her tendency towards naivete, and I thought it important to acknowledge that she's savvy enough to make spot-on deductions like this.

Originally Posted by patrice

As a side note, I liked the back-and-forth between Mike and Marty while she was hoping he would leave already. That was believable. Sometimes when I'm under the weather and my DH is trying his best to be nice and comforting, I still secretly wish he'd just leave me the heck alone, LOL. So I can relate. I hope she'll tell him what happened soon, but considering how damning that tape appears to be, I guess she'll try to hide it. The only thing I'm worried about is that things move forward in this plot, because you've already shown what happens when Alex tries to lord things over Martina's head (their previous sex deal). So hopefully this will be different. I'm assuming there will be a different angle. All I know is that Martina's ready for a breakdown, what with this and the various burglary attempts. Poor girl.

First, LOL back about your husband's well-intentioned ministrations. Sometimes, yeah, you just want peace and quiet. I also like depicting normal, flawed interactions between otherwise loving couples. Mike and Martina are extremely compatible, but they're not perfect lovebirds. In times of great stress, their weaknesses will be revealed.

And yep, Martina's ... not due for any rest any time soon.

Originally Posted by patrice

Sorry for being so longwinded, but you probably don't mind, LOL. Thanks for a great and fast-paced episode and PLEASE keep 'em coming! We'll be here waiting with baited breath.

Aw, I will try, Patrice. I will wager that no author ever needs an apology from an enthusiastic reader who's 'longwinded' with her feedback. It's a blessing, not a curse.

Many, many thanks for your kind words and loyalty over the years.

[tom_k5]

Kira, I was so happy to see the new episode! It definitely came out of left field, but it was a great way to kick off the New Year for ASF. I hope it's a productive one for you!

I have loved every minute of this PlayCity story since your return last year. Every scene is so palpable, and I totally thought Greg was going to bite it at the beginning there. You tricked me good! I figured since he was probably the least developed of that quadrangle, that you could get some true gravity of the situation by having him die and having Jem be responsible. Of those four, I'd think Greg would be the one you'd most likely kill off, since the others are among the series' all time favorites. But! -- I'm glad you didn't kill Greg and I think there's still a lot of mileage in him as a character and as a player in this quadrangle. There was some great stuff there with Jem's guilt over Greg, Rena, Chelsea ... I was completely floored to see Jem crying over Greg White, as much as Jem was himself! The immediate danger may be over, but that doesn't mean these people are out of the woods by any means. It's going to be a dark day for Jem if/when his role in this all comes to the fore. I would feel terrible for Rena (and I do) but I don't think there's any way you'd kill her off yet. I hope I'm right!

I was expecting the Mike/Martina sex tape fakeout, but it still had me on the edge of my seat, waiting to see if he'd truly spotted her in the video. The scene with Alex/Marty was deliciously vile. They have a great hate-chemistry, if that makes sense. I was really annoyed with Martina for pushing Mike away and being bitchy when he was only trying to help, but yeah, I get that her emotions are still raw and she's got way too much to concern herself with than finding Mike's gloves! I'm glad she came to the conclusion about being drugged, because, as you said, she's been a bit victimy lately, and it just seems like one bad thing after another has been happening to her. I know it's not really her fault, but a part of me can't help but think she's stupid for getting into these situations, even when I know there's not much she could have done to prevent any of it. It's hard to read, but inherently interesting!

I continue to enjoy the Nichols Family dynamic as you said. I feel like the Nick/Cam scene showed exactly what these two men are all about, and I have said before that I have a great deal more respect for Nick's modus operandi. I'm glad Jonnie tried to do something to save Chelsea, even if he was too late. I'm sure it will come back to haunt him, but it was a noble gesture. Your next poll should be: Which Nichols is the worst of all? Cameron, Nick, Adele, or Danielle? They are all so evil in their own, unique ways. It would be interesting to see whose style is determined to be the most terrifying. I would probably have to cast my vote for Danielle (truly disgusting and no remorse at all) or Cameron (dangerous, unpredictable, and heartless). Adele's a bit of a wildcard still. I'm not sure who would win in a war between her and Cameron, because they both seem to be running the family, and I'm not sure if Adele really has as much control over Cam as she probably thinks she does. Perhaps we'll see down the road...

Great episode! As you can see, it's given me some things to think about this morning.

[kira]

Hey Tom! Thanks so much for the juicy comments. I always love reading your thoughts on things, you always make me think and consider new angles.

Originally Posted by tom_k5

Kira, I was so happy to see the new episode! It definitely came out of left field, but it was a great way to kick off the New Year for ASF. I hope it's a productive one for you!

I appreciate that, and right back to you, too! Heh, I like that 'came out of left field'. Stealth has its advantages -- of course, it's easy to pull off stealth when one has lowered expectations.

Originally Posted by tom_k5

I have loved every minute of this PlayCity story since your return last year. Every scene is so palpable, and I totally thought Greg was going to bite it at the beginning there. You tricked me good! I figured since he was probably the least developed of that quadrangle, that you could get some true gravity of the situation by having him die and having Jem be responsible. Of those four, I'd think Greg would be the one you'd most likely kill off, since the others are among the series' all time favorites.

I did indeed considering killing him off, for all the reasons you mention! I have to acknowledge that he's the least well-rounded of the four, and probably the least developed "major" character (although Mike is probably up there too). He's difficult to get a handle on, probably because of all the frontburner characters, I find him the toughest to identify with. But as you go on to say, there's plenty of story there. It seemed to me that killing him off would feel like a failure (i.e., doing so before I managed to flesh him out in any significant way). Although now for the first time I'm realizing that the irony of Rena thinking she was going to her deathbed, only for her to wake up and find Greg dead seemingly out of nowhere, might have been worth the price. (Ditto Doug's reaction, for that matter. He certainly wouldn't expect his younger, vibrant brother to go before him.) But no: Greg has more beats to play, and miles to go before he sleeps.

Originally Posted by tom_k5

I was expecting the Mike/Martina sex tape fakeout,

Yeah I admit that was totally cheap and I knew y'all wouldn't really be fooled! I just couldn't help myself. Honestly, the whole episode was jam-packed full of fakeouts, from Greg's death to the building going all explody to Nick's possible reaction to Jonnie's outburst and so on. Even I have limits, though. There was nearly another one in the Martina/Alex scene, when she heard the knock on her door and went up to answer it thinking it was Mike. At first the plan was for her to open the door to discover the sight of Alex on her doorstep. As I wrote it, I was disappointed in both myself and Martina. Even granting that she thought it was Mike, how stupid could she be, a woman who's been mugged and burgled in the past month, just opening the door like a naive shmoe?

The scene stayed like that for a while until I realized that I was sacrificing Marty's intelligence for another cheapo surprise, and having her act maturely wouldn't harm the scene -- in fact it might enhance it if she's on the other side of the door, not being willing to talk to Alex. The suspense of whether she'd open the door despite knowing it was Alex was more interesting than the cheap 'shock' (which wouldn't really be much of a shock to the audience, like DUH) of her opening the door thinking it was Mike. All this rambling is to say that believe it or not, sometimes I do restrain myself and the scenes end up better for it. Nevertheless, Marty did need the fear of God put in her, and I did want her to have an instinctive reaction to hide things rather than reveal 'em.

Originally Posted by tom_k5

but it still had me on the edge of my seat, waiting to see if he'd truly spotted her in the video. The scene with Alex/Marty was deliciously vile. They have a great hate-chemistry, if that makes sense. I was really annoyed with Martina for pushing Mike away and being bitchy when he was only trying to help, but yeah, I get that her emotions are still raw and she's got way too much to concern herself with than finding Mike's gloves! I'm glad she came to the conclusion about being drugged, because, as you said, she's been a bit victimy lately, and it just seems like one bad thing after another has been happening to her. I know it's not really her fault, but a part of me can't help but think she's stupid for getting into these situations, even when I know there's not much she could have done to prevent any of it.

Ooh, harsh! You haven't been taking Cruella-Pills, have you? No seriously, I definitely understand that sometimes Constant Victims appear to be such a magnet for disaster that it becomes easy to blame them for it. Tristan, for example -- he's definitely someone whose dumbass behavior gets him into these messes. Even Beth's miserable life would be much easier (well, relatively) if she just revealed her symptoms to someone. Martina, though ... I'm not sure I'd agree that she's to blame. Her biggest mistake was thinking Mike had sent the flowers/limo, but Alex intended her to think that, and there was no earthly reason she'd doubt that Mike had planned a romantic evening for her, except for the expensive nature of the plans. And the necklace stuff is totally out of the blue; there's no way she could possibly know she's being targetted by Adele.

Of course all my after-the-fact explanations can't change the fact that this is still how Martina's situations come across to you, and I'm sure others as well. I'm sadly aware of how Marty's Constant Victim status weakens her as a character. She's just so darn enjoyable to victimize! Like Tristan. But like Tristan, she too has a breaking point, and there are plans for her to turn the tables on her enemies. She's not even remotely as angsty or embittered as Tris (and certainly not as self-pitying) so it won't take her as long, I promise. All this is to say: I hear you. And I'm relieved that despite her Penelope Pitstop victim status, her situation is still interesting to view.

Originally Posted by tom_k5

Your next poll should be: Which Nichols is the worst of all? Cameron, Nick, Adele, or Danielle? They are all so evil in their own, unique ways. It would be interesting to see whose style is determined to be the most terrifying. I would probably have to cast my vote for Danielle (truly disgusting and no remorse at all) or Cameron (dangerous, unpredictable, and heartless). Adele's a bit of a wildcard still. I'm not sure who would win in a war between her and Cameron, because they both seem to be running the family, and I'm not sure if Adele really has as much control over Cam as she probably thinks she does. Perhaps we'll see down the road...

Ooh, that's a great question, and your analysis of the different strains of evil between Danny and Cam are right on. At least Cameron's been shown to care about his kids (well, so far he's only really been shown with Ian, but what we've seen is that they have a very warm relationship), so I think people's views of him are a little more nuanced than Danielle. Plus, she's sadistic -- she seems to get a kick out of the despicable things she does to others, whereas Cameron doesn't. The end justifies Cameron's means. With Danielle, the 'end' is almost irrelevant if she gets to concoct some very mean 'means'.

Adele's fairly underwritten at the moment. Her motivations are still hidden, after all, and all we've seen from her is her attacks on Martina. And don't rule out Becca and Simon. They may be young but they have both Danielle and Cameron in them, so God only knows what kind of hive of scum and villainy their DNA holds. I suppose Ian, Hannah and Laurie are a bit more sympathetic (it wouldn't make sense for an entire family to have no half-decent members), but they too can be somewhat 'ethically challenged'.

Originally Posted by tom_k5

Great episode! As you can see, it's given me some things to think about this morning.

There's little as rewarding for me as the idea that something I've written makes others think or feel. I truly appreciate your taking the time to consider this stuff and share it with us. And of course, that you read the ep in the first place! As I said, you give me plenty to mull over myself.

[Cruella]

Aaand now, time for some cruellacakes!

Btw, very mild ASOIAF spoilers in there.

That was, obviously, a good episode. But not the kind of "fiiine, I am full for a time being" episode, but demanding fast continuation episode. So here is to hoping that your mojo is still intact. I still wait for editorial you were going to write after one of Andrew's posts...

You haven't been taking Cruella-Pills, have you?

At the corner near you!

You do understand that now I'll be trying to live up to my rep, don't you?

I figured early that Chelsea has hearing problems, although I thought they'd be permanent. But it seems like she's not completely deaf, and probably will be fine in the end. Although one never knows with you!

I did expect someone to die. I think it generally works well to off people when situation calls for it. It creates feeling of urgency, makes people worry more about characters in the future, and in situation like that, when many lives are in obvious danger, it just feels realistic. Like, instead of author's hand saving everyone, just like in life, unthinkable just happens. Like a wind of harsh and cruel reality. Here we had four characters in mortal danger, so for one of them not to be lucky would be rather natural. Greg seemed most expendable, but then, his storyline with drugs only now begins to surface, nor was he developed all that much. Never thought you'd off Chelsea, or, especially, Jem, so I was mostly worried about Rena. And of course there'd be cruel irony in her death, as she's completely innocent and was most angelic of all, risking her life only out of goodness of her heart, and it would be fitting - savior type dying while saving someone. But if you could rid of one character, I assume you would do that. I feel that most important thing is overall picture not short time shock so if their stories weren't yet complete, of course they have to live. One helpful thing, as I said some time ago in Footprints thread, is that you can mangle, maim, or uglify character. But of course you already paralyzed a character last time. Ahh, eyeless Jem, Chelsea with huge permanent scar....or noseless. That's what George Martin would do! Rena and Greg would be dead. I work on becoming more ruthless myself, FWIW.

I am also relieved that Chelsea's dad (Charles?) is fine. I almost envisioned touching episode where we get in his 'head" as he realizes that treated his daughter shabbily, and decides to change and try to reach her anew, only to die, without her ever knowing about his feelings. The bridge of San Luis Rey -like. Mayhaps it would be banal.

Now, about Martina. The storyline itself I like, it's dark, disgusting, and disturbing, a storyline after my heart, certainly. But as far as character of Martina goes, I am still trying to figure out what exactly you are trying to say here. When same type of storyline happens to one character, that signifies something about said character. Either it is symbolic, or a direct product of their personality, good or bad. Kind and giving character constantly taken advantage of signifies rotten state of society/humanity, for example, etc, well, you probably know what I mean even better than me. For example, in ASOIAF, character of Sansa was romantic young girl, dreaming about perfect knights and judging people superficially. When she becomes powerless, she becomes victim of lies, abuse, emotional and physical, sexual advances, etc. It both shows us fate of unprotected beauty and femininity in the harsh world of Westeros and strips character of her particular illusions, we see the real "knights" through the eyes of someone enamoured with them. But what is that exactly about Martina that makes her constant victim of attacks and, in particular, of sexual humiliation? Nothing in her behavior, as far as I can see. Nor is she convenient "victim" for human malice. She's a lawyer, knows the laws, has ties with police, DA office, etc. Of course people can *just happen* to be victims, bad luck and all, but in art, author has to have some particular reason. The only idea I have is that you want to relieve old situation and this time, to show Martina react differently, showing her progress. This time, she'll get back and get even. Or will she?

Tension was good. I almost felt that if it was more drawn out, it would feel even more palpable ( ). That's not criticism, more of thinking aloud. I certainly wouldn't mind staying with Jem for longer, hearing his thoughts as he thinks he's dying with dead body near him - mostly his fault, all of it.

Was it hard to write action scenes and episode in general? It always looks so effortless when somebody else does it but me, but I kinda wonder?...

[Ira]

Kira, this episode was absolutely delicious! I know everyone's all over the PlayCity disaster, which as I've already noted was definitely my favorite story of last year and it's certainly not disappointing this year! But first, I want to get to my favorite storyline, which is the Martina/Alex/Danielle storyline. It's so sickening and yet great all at the same time, and it's fitting right inside my own dark, twisted mind because that's definitely the type of story I love to read and write. I think that's part of why I love ASF so much and it's one of the main reasons I was drawn to the Eppy community seven years ago, it's such a great model of diving deeper into characters' psyches and using darker themes to do so. With that said, I agree a bit with Cruella that Martina is the perpetual victim, so I do hope that she gets the upper hand in all of this and gives Alex/Danielle a good trouncing.

But for now I'm just enjoying the story for what's happening now, and the scenes with her watching the video and Mike coming in were very suspenseful. As was Alex showing up at the door -- and the way the scene ended up is definitely reading better to me than the "gotcha" moment you had planned before. It seems a bit like the dichotomy between earlier soaps and later ones, an earlier one in the 80s/90s would definitely use the latter scene to add some tension. And your scene there was full of it, which as a theatre student was definitely something I learned to love...it's what draws you into a story. The initial tension between characters, situations, etc. The original scene of Martina opening the door and being "shocked" is something I'd see on a current soap, where you'd be like, "You have just been attacked three ways from Sunday! Why the hell are you opening the damn door?" But to end my rambling, I will admit to getting chills every time Alex called her "Tina." Just using a nickname in that scene made their rapore so personal in his mind, and so unsettling and intrusive in hers. And I loved every minute of it.

Now, back to PlayCity! I loved every bit of the fallout here, from Jem getting yelled at for storming in and being told he was going to have to answer to the police, even though he was trying to save Chelsea and Rena (even though it was all HIS fault in the first place!), to the fakeout with Greg's death, and Chelsea thinking that she was dead herself, and then the finale with Rena. Definitely waiting to see what's going to happen once the dust settles and they get to the hospital, and a bit of speculation -- it's probably going to distract Martina from getting tests done at the hospital so lord knows how she's going to find out the truth about Alex and Danielle drugging her! Christ!

And speaking of Christ, this is through no fault of your own but the episode title (and being in church hearing the prayer in general) always makes me laugh because I can never get the theme from Dangerous Minds[/i] out of my head.

Great episode! Definitely can't wait for the next one.

[kira]

Hey thanks for reading and commenting, guys! A very pleasant surprise.

Originally Posted by Cruella

Aaand now, time for some cruellacakes!

Btw, very mild ASOIAF spoilers in there.

... by which she means the dark fantasy novel series A Song of Ice and Fire by George Martin, BTW!

You do understand that now I'll be trying to live up to my rep, don't you?

The great thing about you is that you always live up to your rep! You know that mixture of excitement and fear you get when you're about to step on a roller coaster or similar amusement park ride for the first time? That's what seeing a CruellaComment is like.

I figured early that Chelsea has hearing problems, although I thought they'd be permanent. But it seems like she's not completely deaf, and probably will be fine in the end. (Snip more stuff about me being a wimp and not killing anyone - kl)

I definitely understand where you're coming from, and it really does feel to me too like I may have wussed out in this storyline. It's possible that if I'd been better at telling this story (and by "this story" I mean ASF's saga as a whole), I would have been able to develop each of these characters and their plots to a point where killing 'em wouldn't have ruined their future arcs. In truth, I pushed up the kidnapping storyline earlier than I'd intended it in my original longterm outline, mainly 'cause Jem's Money Problem arc had already taken too much time and was draining the life out of a character who's not supposed to be such a victim. By giving Jem this ransom scheme, he's back in the position of acting, rather than waiting around for the goons to attack. (Of course he's still in a dangerous situation, but it's one that's full of new angles to play.) Ditto with Charles, although I'm pleasantly surprised that you'd be worried about his dying -- I thought you disliked him intensely.

Well, this is all too insidey and dull to yammer on about; my point is that I needed to push things along and thus the characters weren't in the right places yet that would allow me to jettison one of 'em from the canvas.

That said, there will be some long-lasting damage from this explosion. I believe in the importance of 'fallout' too much to make everything hunky-dory.

Now, about Martina. The storyline itself I like, it's dark, disgusting, and disturbing,

Aw, flatterer!

a storyline after my heart, certainly. But as far as character of Martina goes, I am still trying to figure out what exactly you are trying to say here. When same type of storyline happens to one character, that signifies something about said character.

Very true, and your observations are spot on, as far as I'm concerned, regarding the importance of patterns in fiction/dramatic storytelling. Some of the sameness in Marty's arc is intentional, some of it is bad timing, some of it is the result of necessary reworking of a storyline that I changed direction on long ago. There is a payoff from all this victimization, it's just been stretched out so freakin' much from my abysmal schedule that it all seems horrifically repetitious and go-nowhere. I don't deserve much benefit of the doubt, but I'll just say I hope you'll stick around to see where Martina goes, characterwise. Naturally I wouldn't want to give too much away, but you know how a definition of 'crazy' is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting a different result? Well, Martina isn't crazy.

Was it hard to write action scenes and episode in general? It always looks so effortless when somebody else does it but me, but I kinda wonder?...

Oh HELLS yeah. I find it quite difficult. Action is very very much not my forte, which I think is painfully obvious (hence its being so rare and often awkward in ASF). Part of what had me so paralyzed during the Endless Winter of my four-year-long writer's block was the prospect of writing this heavily action-oriented plot on which I'd forced myself. The amusement park scenario was originally intended to be a much longer and paradoxically lighter (in tone) set piece, with various chase scenes in creepy funhouses and whatnot. But I knew I couldn't pull it off with the panache it needed. Plus, things kept getting more serious as I put myself in Chelsea and Rena's position, and it no longer fit the Scooby Doo vibe I'd originally planned for it.

Long story short: You are definitely not alone in finding action hard to write!

Originally Posted by Ira

(...the Martina/Alex/Danielle storyline is) so sickening and yet great all at the same time, and it's fitting right inside my own dark, twisted mind because that's definitely the type of story I love to read and write. I think that's part of why I love ASF so much and it's one of the main reasons I was drawn to the Eppy community seven years ago, it's such a great model of diving deeper into characters' psyches and using darker themes to do so.

Holy cow, I'm so touched, Ira ... thank you very very much for saying this. That's just exactly what I hope to accomplish with my writing. That and entertaining people, natch. The Marty stuff is nasty as hell, even though what you're seeing is actually the censored version (believe it or not!) of my original plan. Truth is, I wish wish wish I hadn't ended up playing these two storylines (kidnapping & Marty's rape) simultaneously, because they're both presenting women as brutalized victims and both awfully dark at times. Chelsea's situation ended up darker and Marty's ended up ... well, not lighter, but less drawn out and pushed more off-stage.

Your voice adds to the chorus of: "For God's sake, Lerner, stop making Martina such an endless magnet for baddies!" I hear you and I promise there's a rationale for all this.

(Good stuff snipped about 80s/90s soaps vs. current ones)

Yes yes yes! That's definitely what I appreciated so much about the genre back in those days, and what I find it so utterly bankrupt now. There's no respect for the audience or even the characters anymore. Everything's about shock and short attention spans these days. While soaps in the old days were never Dickens, they still had a unique ability to provide a lengthy, in-depth study of characters and relationships that was unrivaled by prime time shows. Not all soap writing followed through on this ability, but the best of 'em did, and that's why they were so bloody addictive. I'd rather err on taking the time to develop characters believably than moving fast just to get to a certain plot point -- on both the macro (longterm story arc) and micro (scene) levels. So it took me a few extra lines to show Martina not answering the door, and perhaps it cost me a "GOTCHA!" moment of shock (though really, would anyone have been shocked that Marty opened the door to find Alex instead of Mike?). I think it showed Martina the respect she deserves as a character. She's not a hapless idiot who'd throw open a door after having been mugged and burgled in the past three weeks, and I'd have been doing her an injustice otherwise.

Still I know people would get ridiculously bored by my showing every bleedin' minute of ASF time and every single character's reaction to every plot development. It's a balancing act, to be sure.

But to end my rambling, I will admit to getting chills every time Alex called her "Tina." Just using a nickname in that scene made their rapore so personal in his mind, and so unsettling and intrusive in hers. And I loved every minute of it.

Heh. Yeah, I must say I really love the Tina thing. You really bring up a good point about how intimate a nickname can be, especially when Alex is the only one who uses it. I don't think Marty's ever liked that nickname, even when they were young and in love, but one must assume she tolerated it much better from Alex when he wasn't blackmailing her and, like, making her feel dirty.

Definitely waiting to see what's going to happen once the dust settles and they get to the hospital, and a bit of speculation -- it's probably going to distract Martina from getting tests done at the hospital so lord knows how she's going to find out the truth about Alex and Danielle drugging her! Christ!

LOL! Oh Ira. I can't give anything away there, but ... yeah, there's some distractions for Martina at the hospital, to be sure.

And speaking of Christ, this is through no fault of your own but the episode title (and being in church hearing the prayer in general) always makes me laugh because I can never get the theme from Dangerous Minds[/i] out of my head.

Wait ... Dangerous Minds, the Michelle Pfeiffer flick? They used a psalm in the theme song? I can't even fathom. Psalm 23 (which oddly enough was my mom's favorite psalm -- I say "oddly" because we're Jewish so what the heck was my mom teaching me New Testament psalms for anyway??) is beautiful and sad and hopeful all at once. Kinda hard to imagine that as the theme of a cheesey movie!

Thank you all again for such considered, kind and intriguing comments, everyone. This was a tough episode to write and it's a relief that it seems to have come off better than I'd hoped.

[Cruella]

dark fantasy novel series A Song of Ice and Fire

How DARE you? / Michael Scott. I am trying to write dark fantasy. *ASOIAF* is *epic* fantasy. Epic fantasy with murder, rape, torture, sex, all the interesting bits included. Basically, it is simply realistic, and still reserved, portrayal of life in MA during civil war.

Do you know that your episode is about 10 000 words? We have about the same average episode length! Of course it is quality that matters, but I still find it amusing now to count words. Ten episodes of this will be 100 000 words novel! It just kinda sounds more impressive to say "okay, I've written another novel in series" than "Okay, I'm done with ten episodes of the season". No disrespect for web series genre intended, just a soothing thought for self-hating slow-writer.

Psalm 23 (which oddly enough was my mom's favorite psalm -- I say "oddly" because we're Jewish so what the heck was my mom teaching me New Testament psalms for anyway??) is beautiful and sad and hopeful all at once.

One thing Bible is good for it's pretty quotes. I am an atheist myself, but any cultured person should have some knowledge of both Testaments. I remember as a kid writing down pretty quotes from the book. One of my episodes about investigation (seekers of truth) and cannibals (seekers of food) will be called "Blessed Are They Who Hunger" XD. I still wait to use "For Without Are Dogs and Sorcerers" as a title.

This one psalm is very well known, of course, because it is always quoted at funerals on TV and oft in books, so it's almost impossible to escape. I like it very much myself. The intent is to be reassuring/comforting, but to me the actual artistic effect is deep sadness, which is why I like it so. You know how in autosuggestions "no" and "not" do not register, so is here for me the operative words are "shadow", "death", "fear", "evil", etc.

Aw, flatterer!

I just realized that I had a storyline with many similarities. A 16 y.o. boy in my first online story was drugged and raped after running away from home and getting help from wrong kind of person. I skipped the actual scene, too, because of age of victim and since it would be weird writing about unconscious person and jumped right into morning after. I really like how you handled this aspect. Entire scene from Alex' POV could be creepy, although I am sure you could pull it off if you wanted to. And it is Martina's feelings that are really important here. I am glad she figured out stuff early on. If Mike will be all accepting it would rob us of some drama, but really, if he won't, he's a bitch and should be dumped. Of course, even if he acts like a man should, he still will be traumatized, so there is a lot of drama here.

Action is very very much not my forte

I think the output shows that very much IS your forte, in fact, I was thinking that we have successfull thriller author dying here somewhere... Of course, when you challenge yourself on something difficult results are often much better than you'd expect.
Another thing recent episodes benefited from was tight focus on few storylines and few characters.

[kira]

Originally Posted by Cruella

How DARE you? / Michael Scott. I am trying to write dark fantasy. *ASOIAF* is *epic* fantasy. Epic fantasy with murder, rape, torture, sex, all the interesting bits included. Basically, it is simply realistic, and still reserved, portrayal of life in MA during civil war.

Win for the Office reference. Sorry about mislabelling Mr. Martin's work -- from the sound of it, it seems awfully dark to me! In a good way, of course.

Do you know that your episode is about 10 000 words? We have about the same average episode length! Of course it is quality that matters, but I still find it amusing now to count words. Ten episodes of this will be 100 000 words novel! It just kinda sounds more impressive to say "okay, I've written another novel in series" than "Okay, I'm done with ten episodes of the season". No disrespect for web series genre intended, just a soothing thought for self-hating slow-writer.

Hee! That does make me feel better, a little anyway. The first two seasons of ASF had 217K and 192K words, respectively. Haven't counted the third or fourth seasons yet, but I'd imagine they're about the same -- more episodes but the first eps of season 3 were shorter, so it averages out. Plus I wrote an actual novel in between, so I guess my output for ten years is about five novels' worth. I gotta say that's a much more kind way to think of things. Not that I excuse myself for being such a slow webseries writer, because by creating a serialized work I made a commitment to the audience, and disappointing them is a definite failure on my part.

One thing Bible is good for it's pretty quotes. I am an atheist myself, but any cultured person should have some knowledge of both Testaments. I remember as a kid writing down pretty quotes from the book. One of my episodes about investigation (seekers of truth) and cannibals (seekers of food) will be called "Blessed Are They Who Hunger" XD. I still wait to use "For Without Are Dogs and Sorcerers" as a title.

Sigh. I really wish I could read Russian. I'd love to see your material. You do publish it online, correct?

The Bible really does have some lovely writing. Song of Solomon being my favorite fairly secular example -- pretty sexy stuff there. My mom was actually an atheist herself, despite her upbringing, and her kids are all pretty much agnostic (I hate to rule anything out!) but she definitely believed, like you, that literature is literature. As someone with some major grief in her life, I think she found the Psalm 23 text comforting in a way, even though to her it was hypothetical.

This one psalm is very well known, of course, because it is always quoted at funerals on TV and oft in books, so it's almost impossible to escape. I like it very much myself. The intent is to be reassuring/comforting, but to me the actual artistic effect is deep sadness, which is why I like it so. You know how in autosuggestions "no" and "not" do not register, so is here for me the operative words are "shadow", "death", "fear", "evil", etc.

Oh absolutely. It's the same reason I also adore classical church and religious music, especialy medieval chants, which have that solemn, almost spooky vibe. Same with Requiems and even more celebretory music such as Handel's religioius oratorios (like Messiah). I find it all very moving, even without having the underlying faith.

I think that's why I have a lot of Catholics in ASF. The rituals and traditions are fascinating to me, and frankly they have the best music! (Camilla got a much better funeral than Philippa did.)

I just realized that I had a storyline with many similarities. A 16 y.o. boy in my first online story was drugged and raped after running away from home and getting help from wrong kind of person. I skipped the actual scene, too, because of age of victim and since it would be weird writing about unconscious person and jumped right into morning after.

Yipe, yeah, that's pretty touchy material. I don't blame you for stepping over it in the least. Also, if he's unconscious, there's not much to show unless it's from the rapist's POV, and that is very tough to write and read.

I really like how you handled this aspect. Entire scene from Alex' POV could be creepy, although I am sure you could pull it off if you wanted to.

I would expect to see more from Alex's POV, beyond what's already been shown in this scene from "Before Dawn" as he remembered the aftermath. I'm finding it interesting to show his ambiguous reactions to this whole thing -- some remorse, some triumph. As far as the act itself, the scene from the same episode where Marty watched herself on tape was as yucky as I think the audience can stomach.

As far as how Mike will react, or would react if/when Martina tells him, I of course plan on wringing as much drama and tension from this scenario as possible ... without dragging it on indefinitely. There's a lot to distract everyone, is all I'll say.

I think the output shows that very much IS your forte, in fact, I was thinking that we have successfull thriller author dying here somewhere...

Dying? Holy cow, do you know something about me I don't know?! Seriously, that's highly flattering if implausible to me. I wish I could tighten up my writing enough to be a good action/thriller writer. My instincts are far more leisurely. Which will surprise no one, heh.

Of course, when you challenge yourself on something difficult results are often much better than you'd expect.
Another thing recent episodes benefited from was tight focus on few storylines and few characters.

Thank you, and I certainly agree on the tight focus helping a great deal. It's fortunate, really, that the other storylines are easy to move to the backburner. There are a few 'time-sensitive' plots (primarily Jem's debt situation, Martina/Mike/Alex/Danielle, Beth's pregnancy, and Jonnie's undercover role) but I can let the rest simmer a while, bringing them forward just to vary episodes a bit and refresh the audience's memory so things aren't so claustrophobic. I do like having a large canvas to play with -- even if I end up being the only one who cares about the whole unwieldy, noisy, messy, bizarre crew.

Thanks again very much for your support and honest, forthright comments, Cruella. They mean a great deal to me.

[Ira]

Originally Posted by kira

Yes yes yes! That's definitely what I appreciated so much about the genre back in those days, and what I find it so utterly bankrupt now. There's no respect for the audience or even the characters anymore. Everything's about shock and short attention spans these days. While soaps in the old days were never Dickens, they still had a unique ability to provide a lengthy, in-depth study of characters and relationships that was unrivaled by prime time shows. Not all soap writing followed through on this ability, but the best of 'em did, and that's why they were so bloody addictive. I'd rather err on taking the time to develop characters believably than moving fast just to get to a certain plot point -- on both the macro (longterm story arc) and micro (scene) levels. So it took me a few extra lines to show Martina not answering the door, and perhaps it cost me a "GOTCHA!" moment of shock (though really, would anyone have been shocked that Marty opened the door to find Alex instead of Mike?). I think it showed Martina the respect she deserves as a character. She's not a hapless idiot who'd throw open a door after having been mugged and burgled in the past three weeks, and I'd have been doing her an injustice otherwise.

Trust me, I've fallen victim to doing the "for shock" stuff more often than I like, but I definitely agree with you on the writing of old soaps. They seem to have succumbed to every bad thing people said about them back in the day, where now it's like an exercise in idiocy on a daily basis. I like to compare old scenes to great theatre, and it's something I've tried implementing myself lately -- one of my favorite ways scenes were written was the way most scenes are written for the stage. A conversation between two characters where they can have it out, express their love, blackmail/manipulate one another, all in one scene. Y&R has been implementing these a lot more lately (I think it's Sheffer's doing). Where a lot of action is occuring elsewhere in town, but for an entire episode you just see one conversation between a set of characters. It's fascinating. That was probably a tangent, but I think your series reminds me a lot of some classic episodes of soaps. All you need was a dimly let set, a lavish room, and two fabulous characters going at it. Not "shocks" or quick cuts.

Originally Posted by kira

LOL! Oh Ira. I can't give anything away there, but ... yeah, there's some distractions for Martina at the hospital, to be sure.

Great! I can't wait!

Originally Posted by kira

Wait ... Dangerous Minds, the Michelle Pfeiffer flick? They used a psalm in the theme song? I can't even fathom. Psalm 23 (which oddly enough was my mom's favorite psalm -- I say "oddly" because we're Jewish so what the heck was my mom teaching me New Testament psalms for anyway??) is beautiful and sad and hopeful all at once. Kinda hard to imagine that as the theme of a cheesey movie!

Wait, you've never heard Coolio's "Gangsta's Paradise"?!